tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post1052646304897244634..comments2024-03-29T04:53:16.437-07:00Comments on EU Law Analysis: Bargaining Chips No More: The Status of EU and UK citizens after BrexitSteve Peershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05869161329197244113noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-71292608358047213962021-10-12T06:47:39.415-07:002021-10-12T06:47:39.415-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.ayanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02066898073106439423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-53825719898364115532017-02-07T12:47:31.058-08:002017-02-07T12:47:31.058-08:00Thanks, this is a good question that affects a lot...Thanks, this is a good question that affects a lot of people. For those who have been here as a spouse or partner without being employed or self-employed at all, who have not obtained comprehensive sickness insurance, there is a possible problem. If the government waives the CSI requirement, that should solve the problem for many, in if EU law is also still 'kept running' for those here before Brexit Day or another cut-off date, as detailed above. If the government doesn't waive that requirement then there could be problems - not in terms of deportations (as long as the Human Rights Act and the ECHR apply, anyway) but the other issues you mention. But even on that point the Home Office has been wrongly sending out deportation notices already.Steve Peershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05869161329197244113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-44184920879115979452017-02-07T11:44:14.242-08:002017-02-07T11:44:14.242-08:00What about the EU citizens who have been here, som...What about the EU citizens who have been here, sometimes for decades, as have I, and have not exercised our treaties rights? This is something we (I) never knew until now. I know ignorance of the law is no excuse, so am asking for your opinion as to our right to stay. If we don't qualify, will we be asked to leave? Or will we be refused a permanent residency card which might mean that our access to GP, hospital, bank will be curtailed? Or that a new employer will refuse to hire us on the basis of not being a lawful resident? Or that we will not be able to get back in the country, should we leave for a short period of time? Many thanks for taking the time to consider my question.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-31394031398029471042017-01-19T13:29:13.968-08:002017-01-19T13:29:13.968-08:00On the second point, see my reply to Simon Gardner...On the second point, see my reply to Simon Gardner's comments in this recent blog post: http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/brexit-prime-minister-sets-wrong-course.html<br />As I suggest there, the issue is within the scope of Article 50, but in any event your assertion as to limited EU powers relating to non-EU citizens isn't correct. There are a number of EU laws on various aspects of immigration and asylum for non-EU citizens, and the only power ruled out by the Treaties is the power to decide on the number of labour migrants coming from non-EU countries. (And given that Member States vote on EU laws in the Council it's odd to refer to the EU 'telling' its members to do things). <br />Is it such a huge assumption that EU citizens *are* allowed to stay? As long as the UK has the Human Rights Act and the ECHR there are legal barriers to mass deportations, plus it's not the policy of anyone except an extreme fringe. No reason for the Home Office to check everyone - for those with permanent residence already there's no need to check them again. The two year period is indeed unrealistic in respect of the number remaining, but note the Prime Minister's recent speech referred to an 'implementation' phase during which more of this work could be done. Steve Peershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05869161329197244113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-55816562736856246552017-01-19T13:05:19.796-08:002017-01-19T13:05:19.796-08:00I find a number of arguments here confusing:
Assu...I find a number of arguments here confusing:<br /><br />Assuming some or all EU citizens in the UK *are* allowed to stay they will have to be issued with papers/stamps by the Home Office (an organization devoted to being as obstructive as possible http://badreason99.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/sorry-this-is-about-home-office-and.html) and the Home Office will have to check that everyone meets the criteria that have been set. Three million times over. In 2 years. I don't see how "Ex-EU" status is going to help.<br /><br />Also, there isn't really symmetry with the plight of UK citizens in the EU. The EU has limited powers to tell its members how to treat non-EU citizens within their own borders (though some rules are common). So a "bilateral" agreement isn't really possible. Is it?<br /><br />Or have I misunderstood.Dr Michael Wardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18208273325282474983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-15216823531464350982017-01-05T05:29:42.104-08:002017-01-05T05:29:42.104-08:00Thanks for this comment. This would indeed be a go...Thanks for this comment. This would indeed be a good text to use as a starting point, although it would probably be necessary to refer to other groups (the future status of workers' children, for instance) and specify some more details. The EEA provision would not apply as such to Brexit since it is a different process to that regulated by Article 102 EEA.Steve Peershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05869161329197244113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-54190226321352922632017-01-05T05:21:51.858-08:002017-01-05T05:21:51.858-08:00The UK is a party to the EEA Agreement.
The EEA A...The UK is a party to the EEA Agreement.<br /> The EEA Agreement is a mixed agreement and part of EU-Law.<br /><br />Acquired rights are dealt with in the EEA Agreement – see further below.<br /><br />The UK would have to withdraw from the EEA Agreement in a simultaneous process with its witdrawal from the EU, as membership of the EEA is reserved for EU Member States and for EFTA Member States. <br /><br />Acquired rights are dealt with in the EEA Agreement in the context of the EEA decision making procedure by which new EEA relevant acquis is Incorporated into the EEA Agreement in order to maintain the “homogeneity” between EEA Law (i.a. the EEA Agreement) and EU Law. In case there is failure to reach an agreement in the EEA Joint Committee, which is the joint decision taking body under the EEA Agreement, (see Article 102 EEA) then, under certain conditions, provisional suspension of the relevant part of the EEA Agreement may occur.<br /><br />In an Agreed Minute to the EEA Agreement acquired rights are, in a situation of provisional suspension, given protection jointly by all the Contracting Parties to the EEA Agreement. This protection could serve as a starting point for negotiations on protection for “acquired rights” during negotiations on UK withdrawal from the EU and the EEA.<br /><br />The Agreed Minute in question is contained in the Final Act to the EEA Agreement “Agreed Minute Ad Article 102 (6) EEA” and lists the following examples of acquired rights:<br /><br />– a suspension relating to free movement of workers will not affect the right of a worker to remain in a Contracting Party he had moved to before the rules were suspended,<br /><br />– a suspension relating to freedom of establishment will not affect the rights of a Company in a Contracting Party in which it had established itself before the rules were suspended,<br /><br />– a suspension in relation to Investment, e.g. in real estate, will not affect Investments made before the date of suspension,<br /><br />– a suspension relating to procurement will not affect the execution of a contract awarded before the suspension,<br /><br />– a suspension relating to the recognition of a diploma will not affect the right of a holder of such a diploma to continue his Professional activities thereunder in a Contracting Party not having awarded the diploma.<br /><br />For further reading see the book;<br /> EEA Law, A Commentary on the EEA Agreement, Fritzes, 1993, pages 143 – 146.<br /> ISBN 91-38-92200-2, Norberg, Høkborg, Johansson, Eliasson, Dedichen.<br /><br />Yours sincerely,<br />Lucien Dedichen<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-12926997209086272222016-12-13T13:07:35.833-08:002016-12-13T13:07:35.833-08:00This category of people should also be covered by ...This category of people should also be covered by the general 'ex-EU' status and the cut-off date. Logically this would apply by means of them coming back before the cut-off date (in the British Future suggestion) or before Brexit Day (in my suggested solution for the Article 50 deal). Steve Peershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05869161329197244113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-71037032342342825422016-12-13T00:08:20.732-08:002016-12-13T00:08:20.732-08:00Thanks for your king answer, Mr Peers. I'm Ita...Thanks for your king answer, Mr Peers. I'm Italian and also a British national. My mother is Italian and failed the "habitual residence test" after 9 months she was living here, exactly when I became a British Citizen., because I was no longer a an EEA citizen. We changelled the DWP and lost the First Tier Tribunal appeal. I support her and she has a tiny State Italian Pension. We will try with the Upper Tribunal. Thanks for your valuable opinion. LauraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-20311680947773342302016-12-12T12:49:23.974-08:002016-12-12T12:49:23.974-08:00Take a bow! The suggestion that Britain should col...Take a bow! The suggestion that Britain should colonise the remaining EU perfectly sums up 2016!Steve Peershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05869161329197244113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-83105686455778140582016-12-12T12:46:52.180-08:002016-12-12T12:46:52.180-08:00Hi Steve, very interesting article.
Your article ...Hi Steve, very interesting article.<br /><br />Your article doesn't mention what will happen to those non-eu family members of Brtish Citizens who return to the UK after exercising treaty rights in another member state aka Surinder Singh.<br /><br />Will their non-eu family members be able to complete the 5 year period to obtain permanent residence under EU rules providing the British Citizen returns to the UK before the cut-off date? After all a returning British Citizen is classed as a proxy EEA national.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-79810373712704189342016-12-12T10:24:15.626-08:002016-12-12T10:24:15.626-08:00Unstable internal policy of the EU - from the UK o...Unstable internal policy of the EU - from the UK or not - is a gateway to the Chinese economy. America has vast country, Australia is huge, Asia has several major countries and especially labor. Only Europe is still divided into small states, whose people continue to fight each other. The ideal situation for the "Asian tigers". If from the start, the EU was one nationality for citizens of accession countries - which is not dominant design for better and worse - then no one would feel worse. Too many people in the EU are considered to be worse than others. UK as a country with colonial traditions should lead by example, he can merge the nations and form a coherent policy. I think in the last decade did not go too well the British politicians on the world stage.<br />I do not want to offend anyone.Blogulechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12121685388904542384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-80105736935832618142016-12-12T08:07:45.426-08:002016-12-12T08:07:45.426-08:00Thanks. Do you mean a) people who are dual citizen...Thanks. Do you mean a) people who are dual citizens of the UK and another Member State, or b) people who are UK citizens only, given that the UK is part of the EU for now? If the family members are EU citizens then they can obtain EU citizen status (and ultimately permanent residence status) in their own name if they are working or self-sufficient; the case law says that self-sufficient includes people who have been supported by family members. Steve Peershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05869161329197244113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-37384864960454624632016-12-12T06:54:35.198-08:002016-12-12T06:54:35.198-08:00Very interesting analysis. I wonder what can happe...Very interesting analysis. I wonder what can happen to Eu citizens who are also British nationals. Especially regarding the rights of their family members who are EU citizens only. Many thanks for your attention. LauraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-17461991596347402862016-12-12T01:29:41.209-08:002016-12-12T01:29:41.209-08:00Thanks for your comments. I don't think 'a...Thanks for your comments. I don't think 'associate citizenship' is that frail compared to other non-EU citizens - if you're comparing it with EU citizenship it might be a different conclusion. On the cut-off date you're right, I was sticking with my initial proposal, not the British Future cut-off date - which the panel recommended as a compromise based on what it thought the UK government and public opinion could accept. Steve Peershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05869161329197244113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-18757352995242785812016-12-12T01:22:00.030-08:002016-12-12T01:22:00.030-08:00Great analysis. I'm just not sure if the idea ...Great analysis. I'm just not sure if the idea of 'associate citizenship' is feasible within the current EU framework. Of course, you could see it as individual MS or the EU adopting a privileged immigration regime for UK citizens. But this 'status' would be frail and nowhere near comparable to the EU citizenship that UK citizens (would no longer) possess. Anything more than that, however, seems to contradict the (text and) spirit of Article 18 TFEU, which explicitly links EU citizenship to MS nationalities. An 'associate citizenship' would seem, IMO, to be moving towards a true 'EU nationality' separate from MS nationalities.<br /><br />Just as an aside, is there any particular reason that, in your proposed provision to the Article 50 treaty, that you chose 'Brexit day' as the cut-off date? It seems a bit contradictory to your earlier statement of taking the 'Brexit notification day' as the cut-off date, given that after said date, EU citizens could not legitimately expect to keep their rights as EU citizens in the UK.Chun Lukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02003383227144003430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-65503555865963113742016-12-12T00:02:10.528-08:002016-12-12T00:02:10.528-08:00Probably the direction it will go. Not due to the ...Probably the direction it will go. Not due to the recommendations but since these are already announced political stances. Although the risks are in getting to agree. Even though there may be certain acquired rights and a moral high ground the reality is that many politicians simply don't consider that. Their purpose is the outcome no matter what (I should say "who") and/or safeguarding against loss of votes. History shows us that in these situations the (moral) rights of the few are often neglected. We all know we should have certain rights, that is not the issue... the issue is how far right politicians and society are willing to go in their misguided endeavour. In that they can write/create any law they want, ignoring all decency, fairness and morals. That is the danger. How far are they willing, or pushed by the momentum, to go. Later you'll get "ich habe das nicht gewusst".Kris von Habsburghttp://www.house-of-habsburg.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-90237858258134749872016-12-11T23:17:10.596-08:002016-12-11T23:17:10.596-08:00Thanks for your comments. 1 Trilogues apply to EU ...Thanks for your comments. 1 Trilogues apply to EU legislation (ie if there were a proposal for special status for UK citizens in the EU), but do not apply to international treaty negotiations. 2 Agreed - 'ex-EU' status for UK citizens in the EU also has a UK dimension, although the inquiry only covered EU citizens in the UK. But 'retire in the sun' is over anyway for UK citizens heading to the EU for the first time after 2019, unless the UK agrees a deal with the EU to cover this. 3 That would be nice but I can't see what leverage the UK has there without making concessions on something. Steve Peershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05869161329197244113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8704899696538705849.post-60818816340778771712016-12-11T22:23:20.665-08:002016-12-11T22:23:20.665-08:00Some points.
Role of EP> I think you don't...Some points.<br />Role of EP> I think you don't take into account the no standard trilogue way of operating in Brussels post TEU/TFEU. As Brexit is in effect a co-decision there will be a trilogue set up of the three institutions. The aim is to ensure not major Council/EP differences. EP will set up a Brexit committee which gather its thoughts. the trilogue meetings will be the venue for settling differences between Seeuws for the Council, Barnier for the EC and Verhofstadt for EP.<br />2. UK govt needs to say that it will continue the S1 payments for eligible British state pensioners in Eu27. Without this they will lose their residence rights under existing EU Decision on free movement as non-economic residents. They need to show adequate income and comprehensive health cover. Hence the S1 system. Few British state pensioners in EU27 could afford private health insurance. Of course would not be on offer for those who move to EU27 after Brexit day or even you harsher Art50 cut off day. This in effect kills the "retire in the sun" for many Brits after 2017 or 2019.<br />3. UK also needs to push several MS to offer their nationality to qualifying Brits and to allow them to keep their British nationality. Several including Spain do not allow dual nationality for Brits.Steve Greenhttp://www.prasino.eunoreply@blogger.com